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post #2491 of 2517 Old 04-09-2018, 11:39 AM
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I still think the previous owner mucked around with voltages and you are quite possibly not starting off real defaults, making this process much harder than it should be.

Keep in mind that those flowcharts are meant for sets who have had their pulse meter reset AND plasma panel replaced. If you reset the pulse meter but don't replace the panel, then those flowcharts, and more specifically the voltage value conditions no longer apply. Of course your FS3 + FSAD will be greater than 254 because you have to raise the voltage values to compensate for the fact that your didn't replace the plasma panel.

This whole thing is a balancing act. If you take away from one (VOL SUS) you most likely have to add to another (FSAD) because the set needs at least X amont of power. Anything less / more than that will cause artifacts.

How do things look with the below voltage combinations:

Vsus adjustment value 128
Vysnofs adjustment value 140
Vyprst adjustment value 18
Vxpofs1 adjustment value 85
Vxpofs2 adjustment value 47
Vyknofs1,2 adjustment value 143
Vyknofs3 adjustment value 128
Vyknofs4 adjustment value 172
Vyknofs1,2/3/4 adjustment value 158
XSUSB 125
YSUSB 125

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post #2492 of 2517 Old 04-09-2018, 01:48 PM
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I honestly don't think they have. I mean, a quick check on AVForums and you'll see that 138 (S1), 128 (S3) and 149 (S4) are pretty much the norm for LX5090s. 128 (S3) and 172 (S4) are not good on my set (green-lag).

I understand that the FSAD workflow is for new panels, and it's not entirely appropriate for aged "pulse-reset only" panels, but it's not necessarily true that FSAD should be raised simply because the panel wasn't replaced. I suspect it's VSUS that increases with age and keeps those masks clean, not FSAD, so that the "S3 + FSAD < 254 for RST 21" condition still holds.

If I follow the formula and VSUS chart lnarbi posted, I get this:

VSUS = (SM VOL SUS) * 0.234 + 175

214.6 = (SM VOL SUS) * 0.234 + 175

(SM VOL SUS) = (214.6 - 175)/(0.234) = 169

All the FSAD masks are clear with only VOL SUS raised to 169.

As I said, my set had quite a bit more PSU/ABL noise (not exactly sure what the noise is) before the reset, and that noise comes back when VOL SUS is raised. The PQ is cleaner too (even after accounting for the higher peak output), and strangely enough, black-rain is better (I needed RSTP at 58 instead of 88 for a similar amount of black-rain).

Raising VOL SUS on its own clears almost all artifacts, with RSTP clearing the rest of them (for the most part). There's lots of clues for raising VOL SUS, but not much for FSAD, and really, the "S3 + FSAD <254 for RST 21" condition goes against it for me, especially when considering that VOL SUS clears those masks.

XPOFS2 clears the FSAD masks too, and I didn't have any green-lag when it's only raised enough to clear them, but I'm leaning towards VOL SUS now.

This is of course speculation (that's really the only thing any of us can do), and it could well be that FSAD needs raising post-reset, but I have my doubts.
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post #2493 of 2517 Old 04-10-2018, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by strangequark View Post
I honestly don't think they have. I mean, a quick check on AVForums and you'll see that 138 (S1), 128 (S3) and 149 (S4) are pretty much the norm for LX5090s. 128 (S3) and 172 (S4) are not good on my set (green-lag).

I understand that the FSAD workflow is for new panels, and it's not entirely appropriate for aged "pulse-reset only" panels, but it's not necessarily true that FSAD should be raised simply because the panel wasn't replaced. I suspect it's VSUS that increases with age and keeps those masks clean, not FSAD, so that the "S3 + FSAD < 254 for RST 21" condition still holds.

If I follow the formula and VSUS chart lnarbi posted, I get this:

VSUS = (SM VOL SUS) * 0.234 + 175

214.6 = (SM VOL SUS) * 0.234 + 175

(SM VOL SUS) = (214.6 - 175)/(0.234) = 169

All the FSAD masks are clear with only VOL SUS raised to 169.

As I said, my set had quite a bit more PSU/ABL noise (not exactly sure what the noise is) before the reset, and that noise comes back when VOL SUS is raised. The PQ is cleaner too (even after accounting for the higher peak output), and strangely enough, black-rain is better (I needed RSTP at 58 instead of 88 for a similar amount of black-rain).

Raising VOL SUS on its own clears almost all artifacts, with RSTP clearing the rest of them (for the most part). There's lots of clues for raising VOL SUS, but not much for FSAD, and really, the "S3 + FSAD <254 for RST 21" condition goes against it for me, especially when considering that VOL SUS clears those masks.

XPOFS2 clears the FSAD masks too, and I didn't have any green-lag when it's only raised enough to clear them, but I'm leaning towards VOL SUS now.

This is of course speculation (that's really the only thing any of us can do), and it could well be that FSAD needs raising post-reset, but I have my doubts.
The 138 128 149 S1/3/4 combination is exclusive to the 500M and 101fd. 143 128 172 is for 5020 (which your LX5090 basically is) and the 111fd. Again, not familiar with the Euro sets, but that's the deal with the US models.

VOL SUS does NOT increase with age. As you know, I measured two different panels using a multi meter (pre and post reset) and it was always around 210 volts I believe. S1/3/4 (i.e. SAD) don't change either. RSTP, VOL OFFSET and one of the XPOFS voltages do indeed change, the last one depends on the size.

We all know that the most likely culprit for red tint is the RSTP rise that occurs as the panel ages. So why reset the pulse meter (which resets RSTP internally to its initial value in the aging algorithm) and then turn around and raise RSTP up back to its pre-reset equivalent?

The reason I choose to raise SAD instead of RSTP is because raising SAD doesn't induce as much red tint as raising RSTP (partly because a small increase is needed when raising SAD to clear masks, whereas RSTP has to be raised twice as more to clear the same masks). My objective after reset is to have RSTP be as low as possible (1) to keep the red tint at bay and find alternative routes for clearing artifacts. Is raising SAD the proper way to get a reset display back to its pre-reset state? Based on my pre and post reset measurements, absolutely not. However, the goal of reset is not to go back to pre-reset state (i.e. back to a red tinted display). The goal is red tint removal and black level improvement.

Raising VOL SUS to 169... does that not cause the sparkles near black to come back? On my 60 inch set, raising VOL SUS brought back those sparkles even worse than raising SAD. It also brings back red tint as well.

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post #2494 of 2517 Old 04-11-2018, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
The 138 128 149 S1/3/4 combination is exclusive to the 500M and 101fd. 143 128 172 is for 5020 (which your LX5090 basically is) and the 111fd. Again, not familiar with the Euro sets, but that's the deal with the US models.

VOL SUS does NOT increase with age. As you know, I measured two different panels using a multi meter (pre and post reset) and it was always around 210 volts I believe. S1/3/4 (i.e. SAD) don't change either. RSTP, VOL OFFSET and one of the XPOFS voltages do indeed change, the last one depends on the size.

We all know that the most likely culprit for red tint is the RSTP rise that occurs as the panel ages. So why reset the pulse meter (which resets RSTP internally to its initial value in the aging algorithm) and then turn around and raise RSTP up back to its pre-reset equivalent?

The reason I choose to raise SAD instead of RSTP is because raising SAD doesn't induce as much red tint as raising RSTP (partly because a small increase is needed when raising SAD to clear masks, whereas RSTP has to be raised twice as more to clear the same masks). My objective after reset is to have RSTP be as low as possible (1) to keep the red tint at bay and find alternative routes for clearing artifacts. Is raising SAD the proper way to get a reset display back to its pre-reset state? Based on my pre and post reset measurements, absolutely not. However, the goal of reset is not to go back to pre-reset state (i.e. back to a red tinted display). The goal is red tint removal and black level improvement.

Raising VOL SUS to 169... does that not cause the sparkles near black to come back? On my 60 inch set, raising VOL SUS brought back those sparkles even worse than raising SAD. It also brings back red tint as well.
I don't raise RSTP to clear masks. I only raise it for black-rain/sparkles, so perhaps that's why I'm not seeing red-tint the way you're seeing it. VOL SUS clears the masks. Strange that VOL SUS brings back red-tint as it did the opposite on my set, and blacks weren't as "dirty".

And the reason I raise RSTP high is for sparkles. That doesn't mean I raise it to the point where red-tint comes back. If that means I need to do resets more often, then so be it. It's a compromise.

I've found another LX5090 that's relatively close, and the seller said it hasn't been reset or messed with (though, you can never be sure when buying used). I'll measure VSUS before and after the reset. Sorry for not taking your word for it, but I want to test it for myself :P

I'll do a safe-reset so that I can bring it back to stock. I'll report back on the S1, S3 and S4 voltages too.

I have played around with VOL OFFSET and it doesn't seem to do anything.

And you're right, there are more sparkles when VOL SUS is raised than FSAD, but I want to see if these sparkles go away with age. We all talk about sparkles near black, but are they all equal? Probably not, there are likely fundamental differences in what causes them, and perhaps one way resolves itself better with age etc.

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post #2495 of 2517 Old 04-11-2018, 11:56 AM
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Right, on the 50's raising VOL SUS does not incur red tint. On the 60's it definitely does.

What sucks on the 60's is that you have to choose between red tint and sparkles because you either raise RSTP to clear combi 10 and end up with red tint, or raise SAD or VOL SUS to clear combi 10 and end up with sparkles near black. Even if RSTP is raised partially and SAD is raised to finish clearing up combi 10, the latter will cause sparkles near black.

So you've taken the back panel off your set and will be measuring voltages pre and post reset? Be very careful when mucking around a powered on set. I almost killed myself adjusting a pot on the Y drive board. I was able to let go of the screwdriver as I was being electrocuted lol.

If you do proceed, do report back your findings. I'm curious to see if they match mine.

The sparkles near black definitely go away, as they did on my reset 141fd. It just takes time.

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post #2496 of 2517 Old 04-13-2018, 06:45 AM
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Right, on the 50's raising VOL SUS does not incur red tint. On the 60's it definitely does.

What sucks on the 60's is that you have to choose between red tint and sparkles because you either raise RSTP to clear combi 10 and end up with red tint, or raise SAD or VOL SUS to clear combi 10 and end up with sparkles near black. Even if RSTP is raised partially and SAD is raised to finish clearing up combi 10, the latter will cause sparkles near black.

So you've taken the back panel off your set and will be measuring voltages pre and post reset? Be very careful when mucking around a powered on set. I almost killed myself adjusting a pot on the Y drive board. I was able to let go of the screwdriver as I was being electrocuted lol.

If you do proceed, do report back your findings. I'm curious to see if they match mine.

The sparkles near black definitely go away, as they did on my reset 141fd. It just takes time.
That's kinda the same on my set: I have to balance sparkles and red-tint. The 60" Kuros sound like a nightmare to adjust post-reset!

Maybe the S1, S3 and S4 voltages were messed with on my set, and that's why I have sparkles near black even with FSAD at 128 (as you said). Hopefully this new LX5090 I'm getting will shed some light on the matter.

And yeah, I haven't taken the panel off because I don't have it yet

Will cost £200, plus £50 for courier costs. It comes in the original box and packaging, and the seller said he's the original owner. He also said it was one of the very last LX5090s, so that's interesting, I wonder what the manufacture-date is.
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post #2497 of 2517 Old 04-13-2018, 12:38 PM
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That's kinda the same on my set: I have to balance sparkles and red-tint. The 60" Kuros sound like a nightmare to adjust post-reset!

Maybe the S1, S3 and S4 voltages were messed with on my set, and that's why I have sparkles near black even with FSAD at 128 (as you said). Hopefully this new LX5090 I'm getting will shed some light on the matter.

And yeah, I haven't taken the panel off because I don't have it yet

Will cost £200, plus £50 for courier costs. It comes in the original box and packaging, and the seller said he's the original owner. He also said it was one of the very last LX5090s, so that's interesting, I wonder what the manufacture-date is.
The problem with the 60 inch Kuros is that, even after reset, you'll either have red tint, sparkles near black or magenta lag (60 inch version of black lag / rain) depending on your adjustment method.

If you raise RSTP to clear magenta lag, you end up with very minor sparkles near black (I would say normal since some stock 60s have those) but red tint.

If you raise SAD to clear magenta lag, you end up with little to no red tint but tons of sparkles near black.

If you raise VOL SUS to clear magenta lag, you end up with red tint and tons of sparkles near black.

S1 can be raised independently to clear magenta lag, but you end up with tons of sparkles near black and some red tint.

When comparing raising RSTP vs SAD, I needed to raise RSTP from 1 to 101 to completely get rid of magenta lag but had significant red tint. Conversely, I only needed to raise SAD from 128 to 198 to get rid of magenta lag and had some red tint but tons of sparkles near black. If I raise RSTP and SAD equally by 100 ticks (independently for comparison) I see the same amount of red tint. But a 100 tick increase in SAD is not needed to clear magenta anyways.

My 60 inch set doesn't have sparkles near black unless I raise SAD, even by as little as 20 ticks. I know for a fact that the sparkles near black do go away after 1000 hours of use, and given that the sparkles don't go away even when I raise RSTP (with SAD at 198), I can deduce that an internal raising of RSTP is not the reason why the sparkles go away on their own. My guess is the panel is overdriven internally for the first 1000 hours and theres no way around it.

In summary, all Kuros get the red tint eventually (due to internal raise in RSTP). Once a 60 inch set gets it, its a lost cause.

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post #2498 of 2517 Old 04-15-2018, 02:09 AM
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Hi.

I have a 508 and have lowered both RSTP (001) and s1-s4 because I had the red tint and bad blacks.

The red tint is gone, but the blacks are not very black wich can be seen right before a movie start for instance.
The picture used to be very red here, but now I can almost detect a hint of blue.

I have lowered the s1-s4 by 20 clicks without any noticable problems in the picture. Am I done now or is there something I could try to get the blacks blacker? They are not very black at all imho between content.

When I was testing this I tried goin pretty far to the max on all settings with a test-picture in the background and at one point I had severe black crush, however I dont think this was the s1-s4 setings I was fiddling with at the time, and I cant seem to remember wich of the settings it was, so this is why I have hope there is even more to be gained.
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post #2499 of 2517 Old 04-20-2018, 09:16 AM
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strangequark, I definitely think that you are correct when raising XPOFS2 post reset as it seems to really help the picture and clear a good portion of the misfires.

I, like makaveddie81 have always set RSTP to 1 and then raised FSAD to clear all magenta misfires from COMBI MASK 6 (usually needs to go to 177) and generally the picture is good but definitely not as clean and defined as pre reset. I have been doing this for a couple of years now and usually reset every 3 months as the black level rises over time but I have since tried the new method as stated by strangequark.

Post reset, I clear a white screen by lowering YSUS_B and XSUS_B using the table that Inarbi posted a few years so 124 for YSUS and 126 for XSUS. I have two 500A's and the one that is aged more needed one more click down so 123 for YSUS and 125 for XSUS.

Once this has been done I raise XPOFS2 from 63 in increments of 10 until RSTMSK 21 is clear of misfires and on my set that is 93, this on it's own clears up a fair bit of COMBI MASK 6 so I then raise it more until I see green lag coming in and out of COMBI MASK 6 which is a figure of 107, I then take it back a few so I reach a figure of 103 which is +40 from the default 63. This cleans quite a lot of COMBI MASK 6, 7 and PATTERN MASK 23 but not all of it.

We do know that the only two voltages that change pre and post reset are XPOFS & RSTP so all I done next is raise RSTP +40 from it's default 18 (like XPOFS2) to eliminate black rain which leaves a total of 58. When checking a normal source (Cable) and Blu Ray etc the picture looks sublime and much cleaner and crisper than raising FSAD.

So to recap, the only two voltages that I adjusted on my 500A are XPOFS2 and RSTP from:

XPOFS2 Default 63 - New figure of 103 (+40)
RSTP Default 18 - New figure of 58 (+40)

Black is unreadable with my Xrite Colourmunki Display and I'm really happy, obviously the black will rise like it did previously but I will just do regular resets every few months like before.

strangequark, your default voltages are correct for a 5090, they are identical to my 500A's

Regarding VOLSUS, I could be tempted to raise that up a bit to clear all of the MASKS but I'm not sure if it's necessary as I see no artifacts on normal content at all.

Please try this method and see how you get on, just raise XPOFS2 and RSTP by the same amount from their defaults

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post #2500 of 2517 Old 04-21-2018, 08:45 AM
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strangequark, I definitely think that you are correct when raising XPOFS2 post reset as it seems to really help the picture and clear a good portion of the misfires.

I, like makaveddie81 have always set RSTP to 1 and then raised FSAD to clear all magenta misfires from COMBI MASK 6 (usually needs to go to 177) and generally the picture is good but definitely not as clean and defined as pre reset. I have been doing this for a couple of years now and usually reset every 3 months as the black level rises over time but I have since tried the new method as stated by strangequark.

Post reset, I clear a white screen by lowering YSUS_B and XSUS_B using the table that Inarbi posted a few years so 124 for YSUS and 126 for XSUS. I have two 500A's and the one that is aged more needed one more click down so 123 for YSUS and 125 for XSUS.

Once this has been done I raise XPOFS2 from 63 in increments of 10 until RSTMSK 21 is clear of misfires and on my set that is 93, this on it's own clears up a fair bit of COMBI MASK 6 so I then raise it more until I see green lag coming in and out of COMBI MASK 6 which is a figure of 107, I then take it back a few so I reach a figure of 103 which is +40 from the default 63. This cleans quite a lot of COMBI MASK 6, 7 and PATTERN MASK 23 but not all of it.

We do know that the only two voltages that change pre and post reset are XPOFS & RSTP so all I done next is raise RSTP +40 from it's default 18 (like XPOFS2) to eliminate black rain which leaves a total of 58. When checking a normal source (Cable) and Blu Ray etc the picture looks sublime and much cleaner and crisper than raising FSAD.

So to recap, the only two voltages that I adjusted on my 500A are XPOFS2 and RSTP from:

XPOFS2 Default 63 - New figure of 103 (+40)
RSTP Default 18 - New figure of 58 (+40)

Black is unreadable with my Xrite Colourmunki Display and I'm really happy, obviously the black will rise like it did previously but I will just do regular resets every few months like before.

strangequark, your default voltages are correct for a 5090, they are identical to my 500A's

Regarding VOLSUS, I could be tempted to raise that up a bit to clear all of the MASKS but I'm not sure if it's necessary as I see no artifacts on normal content at all.

Please try this method and see how you get on, just raise XPOFS2 and RSTP by the same amount from their defaults
That's what I have been doing (RSTP and XPOFS2). If you raise XPOFS2 to 78 as quoted in the slide lnarbi posted, FSAD only needs raising by 10 or 20 ticks to clear RST 21. I don't know which way is better, but it's another option.

I'm done with COMBI MASK 6 as makaveddie81 said even non-reset Kuros can have misfires on that mask, so why clear a mask that's not even clear on all Kuros? I think it makes more sense to clear the masks in the FSAD workflow, especially RST 21, and any mask that is normally clear on a stock Kuro.

I have yet to buy another LX5090 for testing, so I'm not sure about VOL SUS, but here's the thing: VOL SUS clears the FSAD masks and magenta-misfires on a white-field, and only RSTP needs adjusting after that. If you raise XPOFS2 and RSTP, you still need to lower XSUB/YSUB. That doesn't mean one way is better than the other, but it fits in with the VSUS ageing slide posted by lnarbi.

makaveddie81 said there was no change in VSUS before and after a reset on his set, and that clearly goes against the VSUS ageing slide posted by lnarbi, so I'm looking for another LX5090 to measure VSUS. There's also more sparkles near black when VOL SUS is raised, so yeah, there's some stuff going against it too.

Have you done any comparisons between "VOL SUS, RSTP" and "XPOFS2, RSTP, XSUB/YSUB"?

Oh and thanks for reporting back on XPOFS2. It's interesting to know that XPOFS2 clears RST 21 on the KRP500A too

Is PATTERN MASK 23 usually clear on non-reset Kuros? It's not clear with XPOFS2 at 98, and I didn't see much reason to go higher due to the green-lag. VOL SUS or FSAD clears it on my set. This is swaying me towards VOL SUS!

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post #2501 of 2517 Old 04-21-2018, 01:22 PM
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That's what I have been doing (RSTP and XPOFS2). If you raise XPOFS2 to 78 as quoted in the slide lnarbi posted, FSAD only needs raising by 10 or 20 ticks to clear RST 21. I don't know which way is better, but it's another option.

I'm done with COMBI MASK 6 as makaveddie81 said even non-reset Kuros can have misfires on that mask, so why clear a mask that's not even clear on all Kuros? I think it makes more sense to clear the masks in the FSAD workflow, especially RST 21, and any mask that is normally clear on a stock Kuro.

I have yet to buy another LX5090 for testing, so I'm not sure about VOL SUS, but here's the thing: VOL SUS clears the FSAD masks and magenta-misfires on a white-field, and only RSTP needs adjusting after that. If you raise XPOFS2 and RSTP, you still need to lower XSUB/YSUB. That doesn't mean one way is better than the other, but it fits in with the VSUS ageing slide posted by lnarbi.

makaveddie81 said there was no change in VSUS before and after a reset on his set, and that clearly goes against the VSUS ageing slide posted by lnarbi, so I'm looking for another LX5090 to measure VSUS. There's also more sparkles near black when VOL SUS is raised, so yeah, there's some stuff going against it too.

Have you done any comparisons between "VOL SUS, RSTP" and "XPOFS2, RSTP, XSUB/YSUB"?

Oh and thanks for reporting back on XPOFS2. It's interesting to know that XPOFS2 clears RST 21 on the KRP500A too

Is PATTERN MASK 23 usually clear on non-reset Kuros? It's not clear with XPOFS2 at 98, and I didn't see much reason to go higher due to the green-lag. VOL SUS or FSAD clears it on my set. This is swaying me towards VOL SUS!
Not sure if PATTERN MASK 23 is clear on non reset Kuros, but it is always littered with magenta misfires on my reset 500a's. Only way to clear them for me is to raise FSAD or VOL SUS but as I want to now experiment without touching FSAD I'm happy to leave it as long as a white pattern is clear and I don't see it on real life content.

Having two 500a's is a bonus as I can try two different methods in both, so on my main one I've adjusted XPOFS2 +40, RSTP +4O, XSUS_Y (123) & XSYS_B (125). With this method I still have a few misfires on some Masks but none are seen on content and the picture is great.

On my other 500a which doesn't get as much use but I've just reset again I've used the same method as before, but rather than lower XSUS_Y & XSYS_B I've left them at default and raised VOL_SUS to clear a white screen and all Masks (including COMBI 6). So, VOL_SUS +40 (168), XPOFS2 +40 (103) & RSTP +40 (58).

The picture looks as good as the one that hasn't had VOL_SUS raised so I'm not sure if it's absolutely necessary or what way is the best way but I'll monitor for a few weeks and update. From what I can see, the picture looks better without touching FSAD so I'm happy 👍
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post #2502 of 2517 Old 04-21-2018, 01:47 PM
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All masks are clean on all my reset 50 inch sets. As you know, I employ the FSAD raise, x/y susb lowering and optional rstp raise method.

Changing gears, I purchased a 70 inch Sharp Elite to replace the 141fd in my main room and couldn't be any happier.

I'll post more detailed observations and direct comparisons against Kuro in the near future.
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post #2503 of 2517 Old 04-21-2018, 01:51 PM
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Not sure if PATTERN MASK 23 is clear on non reset Kuros, but it is always littered with magenta misfires on my reset 500a's. Only way to clear them for me is to raise FSAD or VOL SUS but as I want to now experiment without touching FSAD I'm happy to leave it as long as a white pattern is clear and I don't see it on real life content.

Having two 500a's is a bonus as I can try two different methods in both, so on my main one I've adjusted XPOFS2 +40, RSTP +4O, XSUS_Y (123) & XSYS_B (125). With this method I still have a few misfires on some Masks but none are seen on content and the picture is great.

On my other 500a which doesn't get as much use but I've just reset again I've used the same method as before, but rather than lower XSUS_Y & XSYS_B I've left them at default and raised VOL_SUS to clear a white screen and all Masks (including COMBI 6). So, VOL_SUS +40 (168), XPOFS2 +40 (103) & RSTP +40 (58).

The picture looks as good as the one that hasn't had VOL_SUS raised so I'm not sure if it's absolutely necessary or what way is the best way but I'll monitor for a few weeks and update. From what I can see, the picture looks better without touching FSAD so I'm happy 👍

Great

What about raising VOL SUS without raising XPOFS2? VOL SUS clears those masks without XPOFS2, and clears PATTERN MASK 23 too. I don't think XPOFS2 needs to be raised when VOL SUS is raised. According to the VSUS age chart posted by lnarbi, I need about 170 on my set, and that clears all masks on its own. That's what I like about VOL SUS.
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post #2504 of 2517 Old 04-21-2018, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
All masks are clean on all my reset 50 inch sets. As you know, I employ the FSAD raise, x/y susb lowering and optional rstp raise method.

Changing gears, I purchased a 70 inch Sharp Elite to replace the 141fd in my main room and couldn't be any happier.

I'll post more detailed observations and direct comparisons against Kuro in the near future.
Haha, yeah, we will all have moved to better TVs before figuring out this reset stuff

I'll look forward to seeing them
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post #2505 of 2517 Old 04-23-2018, 03:00 AM
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Great

What about raising VOL SUS without raising XPOFS2? VOL SUS clears those masks without XPOFS2, and clears PATTERN MASK 23 too. I don't think XPOFS2 needs to be raised when VOL SUS is raised. According to the VSUS age chart posted by lnarbi, I need about 170 on my set, and that clears all masks on its own. That's what I like about VOL SUS.
OK, after watching a few hours of the 2nd Kuro with the VOL SUS raise, I can see that it does not add anything to the picture that my other Kuro has with just XPOFS2 and RSTP raise. I don't think it's needed as long as a white screen is clear using XSYS_Y and XSUS_B.

As makaveddie81 discovered when comparing a reset Kuro to a non reset Kuro, the only voltages that change post reset are RSTP and XPOFS* so those are the only two voltages that I think need adjusting, and raising RSTP definitely cleans the picture up and makes the pixels more stable in my opinion.

I have tweaked my first Kuro a bit more as I was getting slight green lag with XPOFS2 @ 103. I have lowered it to 93 and raised RSTP to 61 and black is still unreadable to my Colorrmunki Display meter.

What I am now thinking is maybe when you reset a Kuro without replacing the panel is that some MASKS might always now misfire in the service menu, this might be a consequence of resetting. As long as the MASKS in the service manual workflows are clean, I'm happy and I can 100% honestly say that I can't see any misfires in real world content.

I know that RSTP rises over time and I know that with a high figure now it will not be long before the black raises above the 500A default of 0.0005ftL, so I'm left with two choices:

1: Perform a monthly reset (I'm already resetting every three months)

or

2: Check black level every month and lower RSTP so black is unreadable

I'll probably perform a reset every month to keep this great picture that I have, yes a downside to resetting but it only takes 5 minutes so no bother at all.

If you have a meter and can measure black level just raise XPOFS2 until RST MSK 21 is clean and then raise RSTP just enough that you can't read black and that is all that's required. Raising RSTP post reset also eliminates the majority of black rain so a win win.

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post #2506 of 2517 Old 04-23-2018, 04:03 AM
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Can anyone be so kind and post what the default values are on the 500A? I have tried searching but couldn't find it. Does a reset restore the default values?
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post #2507 of 2517 Old 04-24-2018, 05:55 AM
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Can anyone be so kind and post what the default values are on the 500A? I have tried searching but couldn't find it. Does a reset restore the default values?
Vsus adjustment value 128
Vysnofs adjustment value 113
Vyprst adjustment value 18
Vxpofs1 adjustment value 85
Vxpofs2 adjustment value 63
Vyknofs1,2 adjustment value 138
Vyknofs3 adjustment value 128
Vyknofs4 adjustment value 149
Vyknofsad adjustment value 128
XSUS_B 128
YSUS_B 128

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post #2508 of 2517 Old 04-25-2018, 03:41 PM
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I know this is a Kuro thread, but since some are contemplating replacing red tinted sets (especially 60 inch versions) I feel like posting my observations regarding my newly purchased 70 inch Sharp Elite that replaced a 141FD may help those who are thinking about replacing their sets. Enjoy!

A common failure on these sets is IR board failure and sure enough, the board on my set is shot. So keep that in mind when hunting for one of these sets. I'm using the AnyMote app on my iPhone to control the set and it works wonderfully.

Build quality - its plastic fare but quite good, though not as good as Kuro. I do like the brushed metal frame and how its not a dust magnet. Unlike the Kuro glossy frame which I have to dust on a weekly basis.

Now for the part that everyone is waiting for - picture quality. Coming from a Kuro owner, I can say that I'm very impressed.

Initial picture quality observations were not favorable though, even in the famed THX Movie mode. Colors were off and grayscale looked heavy on blue to my eyes. I did see the potential for greatness, as the black level looked like a tweaked KRP-500M. Looking at the numbers from the HDTV Shootout, this thing measured .0002 while a tweaked 500M measures between .0001 and .0003.

I dove in to calibrate the THX Movie mode, with a strong emphasis in replicating a plasma look, more specifically, the Kuro look. My eyes didn't lie, as the grayscale was pushing blue and colors were way off. As I was calibrating the grayscale using the two point controls, I realized that the Kuro engineers definitely had a heavy influence on this thing, as, like Kuro, the grayscale was close to perfect with only two points of adjustment (80 for high, 30 for low) and gamma fell in line (with the exception of a dip from 80 to 90 that also occurs on Kuro. Unlike Kuro, the CMS on the Sharp Elite works flawlessly, so this is a huge plus. All in all, calibrating the Sharp Elite was as easy as calibrating a Kuro, with both yielding awesome results with very little tinkering.

I'll first address the bad aspects of post calibration PQ. Bad sources, such as DVD or DirecTV don't look as good as they do on the Kuro, though I'm not sure how much the size increase factors in this. I do see the pulsing effect, though it's not too bad and got better when I changed the OPC range. Hard to spot it now. As far as the cyan issue is concerned... what cyan issue? I don't notice it at all, though a side by side comparison may yield different results. Not planning on doing that so the cyan issue is non existent to me. The screen seems to be more reflective than Kuro, but its light output is able to drown out reflections during day time somewhat. While obviously not close to plasma, off angle performance is not that bad. I found that color saturation drops off before the black level does on off angle viewing but the saturation drop was minor and a normal person wouldn't notice it. At extreme (and unrealistic) view angles, black level and color saturation takes a massive hit and some major haloing pops up. Since I am 10 feet away and the length of the set is almost as long as my couch, view angles are not an issue.

On to the good. If fed a high quality source, this thing produces a breath taking picture. I believe my approach in calibration was successful in recreating the Kuro plasma look that I wanted with white whites to top it off. Black bars remain inky on almost all content. An all black field looks perfectly uniform (no Kuro red tint YAY!), though I did have some minor spotlighting in the corners that went away after calibration. Shadow detail is excellent. Colors pop. Although the overall picture isn't as organic looking as Kuro and doesn't have the Kuro film like "texture" to it (looks a bit too clean), I believe the sacrifice was well worth it for a 10 inch size upgrade with better black level and NO RED TINT! It took my eyes a few days to adjust to this (though my calibration approach did help replicate the above Kuro qualities to a degree).

In closing, I am extremely happy with my purchase and don't regret selling my Kuro 141FD. Would I recommend a Sharp Elite over a Kuro? It depends on the scenario, so I'll break down each one:

50 inch non-red tinted Kuro to 60 or 70 inch Sharp Elite - Recommended only if size increase is desired
50 inch red tinted Kuro to 60 or 70 inch Sharp Elite - If unwilling to remove red tint via pulse meter reset, highly recommended
60 inch non-red tinted Kuro to 60 inch Sharp Elite - Not recommended
60 inch red tinted Kuro to 60 inch Sharp Elite - Recommended if unable to find a non-red tinted 60 inch Kuro (good luck with that)
60 inch non-red tinted Kuro to 70 inch Sharp Elite - Recommended only if size increase is desired
60 inch red tinted Kuro to 70 inch Sharp Elite - Highly recommended

I have attached comparison pictures between Kuro and Sharp Elite (Sharp Elite pic is the one with the pause pop up) along with pictures of calibration report.
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post #2509 of 2517 Old 05-05-2018, 02:15 PM
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Vsus adjustment value 128
Vysnofs adjustment value 113
Vyprst adjustment value 18
Vxpofs1 adjustment value 85
Vxpofs2 adjustment value 63
Vyknofs1,2 adjustment value 138
Vyknofs3 adjustment value 128
Vyknofs4 adjustment value 149
Vyknofsad adjustment value 128
XSUS_B 128
YSUS_B 128
Many thanks. Finally put them in. One more question though. How do i unlock the isf-day in kurocontrol? I tried everything but it just refuse to activate at all. In what order do i have to do things? There are quite a few buttons. I just get a bunch of error/invalid command messages.
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post #2510 of 2517 Old 05-24-2018, 09:14 PM
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So I had my tv in storage for a while and decided to use it and I have 7 red blinks on stand by light which indicates YSUS under over voltage protection. I haven't used it since last voltage change and everything was ok then. Anyone help on what I need to change to get it working again?

thx

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post #2511 of 2517 Old 05-25-2018, 12:53 PM
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So I had my tv in storage for a while and decided to use it and I have 7 red blinks on stand by light which indicates YSUS under over voltage protection. I haven't used it since last voltage change and everything was ok then. Anyone help on what I need to change to get it working again?

thx
My 141fd had the 7 blinks and it ended up being the Y board needing replacement.

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post #2512 of 2517 Old 05-25-2018, 01:18 PM
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I never used it after yf1 change from 086 to 063. Find it would just go out sitting unused. I have spare parts from another 600m can I put a used board in without issues? Will I loose ISF calibration as well?

Thx again

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Last edited by dano382; 05-25-2018 at 01:23 PM.
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Originally Posted by dano382 View Post
So I had my tv in storage for a while and decided to use it and I have 7 red blinks on stand by light which indicates YSUS under over voltage protection. I haven't used it since last voltage change and everything was ok then. Anyone help on what I need to change to get it working again?

thx
My 141fd had the 7 blinks and it ended up being the Y board needing replacement.

So no other way to fix this with menu settings? I can’t seem to access menu either.

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post #2514 of 2517 Old 05-25-2018, 03:02 PM
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I never used it after yf1 change from 086 to 063. Find it would just go out sitting unused. I have spare parts from another 600m can I put a used board in without issues? Will I loose ISF calibration as well?

Thx again
So you changed the setting and didn't bother to test? Just called it a day and packed it up?

Highly unlikely that changing one voltage setting (by a small amount in the grand scheme of things) would case the set to not even power on.

You won't lose calibration settings when replacing the Y board.

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post #2515 of 2517 Old 05-25-2018, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dano382 View Post
I never used it after yf1 change from 086 to 063. Find it would just go out sitting unused. I have spare parts from another 600m can I put a used board in without issues? Will I loose ISF calibration as well?

Thx again


So you changed the setting and didn't bother to test? Just called it a day and packed it up?

Highly unlikely that changing one voltage setting (by a small amount in the grand scheme of things) would case the set to not even power on.

You won't lose calibration settings when replacing the Y board.
No after change I ran content through it to test if sparkles went away. I then put it in storage. I’m was going to sell it and hooked it up and discovered the issue. I will replace board and report back. Thank you again....

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post #2516 of 2517 Old 05-25-2018, 07:50 PM
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Replaced board and everything worked with no artifacts. Thank you for the help.

Pioneer KRP-600M
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post #2517 of 2517 Old 05-26-2018, 02:34 PM
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Replaced board and everything worked with no artifacts. Thank you for the help.

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